Mount Bross opened or closed

[painless4u2]

Funny how these Bross access questions keep popping up. Been a few, to say the least. And you know what? None of it matters. Want to summit Bross and not worry about trespassing? Go ahead! Never heard of anyone having issues by doing that. Want to skirt around the summit to avoid trespass, or go to the hokey "South Bross"? Go for it and claim your "summit"! Want to just skip Bross altogether because it's a nothing-burger of a mountain? Sure! The amount of bloviating expended on such a slag heap is just incredible.

[justiner]

According to my Above the Timber map, Democrat, Cameron, Lincoln and Bross are all on private property (green is NF, yellow is... not NF) but the property owners (except Bross) have agreed access.

If you have a GPS, you can, with pretty good confidence, go into a sliver of land that's just south of the summit, just one topo line lower than the summit, and claim that as your highpoint for Bross.

The boundaries on those maps are sometimes wildly inaccurate, especially up there and when it comes to mining claims. Didn't we just go through that on Shavano I think? Something about they did an actual survey and found the point was on private land where they thought (and maps showed) it wasn't? You can also take a look at the county parcel map on the web: http://maps.parkco.us:3000/ They always have the disclaimer that it's not survey accurate, because of GIS and parcel fabrics and warps and such, but I thought it was an interesting contrast/example, your map vs the county showing the parcel around Cameron being on the summit vs a little north of it.

I thought I'd test that with Bross - here's the overlay of the county parcel map, and the Above the Timber map:

bross2.jpg

Not 100% perfect, but there's not missing mining parcels on the AtT map, that's on the county parcel map, so that's sort of interesting. Of course, they could be both off, in very similar ways! But the land just SE of the summit is not on private property that I can tell. Does it make a difference? I dunno, but it's interesting, nonetheless. I'm amazed that there isn't more sectioned off areas around there, as mine shafts do collapse and that's Bad to those on top of them. Perhaps I know not of the mining techniques used on Bross.

The Shavano thing, from this bystander, seemed to be handled sort of strangely.


Speaking of things happening in the Real World(tm) that have no real impact on reality:

GOLD RUSH Todd Hoffman's Colorado mine shut down by Park County cease and desist:
http://starcasm.net/archives/371800

[jahselassie]

Thank you to everyone for the feedback!!

[Timothy]

Yeah, maybe some of this is bloviating, but, obviously the discussion continues because there is interest in the subject. I've done the hike up democrat/Cameron/Lincoln three times and have yet to summit Bross. The main reason has to do with my then 12-year-old son with a well-developed sense of ethics who read that Bross is closed. When I floated the idea of hiking it anyway, he looked at me in disbelief and said, "But Dad, it says right here that Bross is closed, so wouldn’t that be trespassing?"

The fact is that somebody else got there first and they have a piece of paper saying they have the legal right to deny access. The right and wrong of that is not up to me, kinda like the right and wrong of leaving trash or letting my dog run amok is not up to me.

Oh, and, I totally recommend having children. Among other things, it is very educational.

[painless4u2]

Yeah, maybe some of this is bloviating,

Yep.

Like I said, don't feel like trespassing and just skipping the summit? Great! And an admirable example for your son, too. Bross is not worthy of such hand wringing.

[Coachjordynb]

Please read this website to understand the history of the closeures of Bross (still closed), Lincoln, Cameron and Democrat. http://www.14ers.org/peaks/mosquito-range/mount-bross/

I would like to highlight that Bross Summit is closed and if hikers continue to ignore this, the other nearby summits will likely close (again!).

[rpdawes]

Please read this website to understand the history of the closeures of Bross (still closed), Lincoln, Cameron and Democrat. http://www.14ers.org/peaks/mosquito-range/mount-bross/

I would like to highlight that Bross Summit is closed and if hikers continue to ignore this, the other nearby summits will likely close (again!).

Since the CFI report was posted 5 years ago, many hikers including 14er finishers have summited Mt. Bross. Mt. Democrat and Mt. Lincoln plus Kite Lake Trailhead remain open. The owners evidently have been aware of it since they left a man-built wind shield intact right at the true summit. Nobody knows how old the summit is.

[ClimbandMine]

If you owned enough land on a mountain, what kind of permit would you need to legally use artillery for avalanche control?

BATF - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. They regulate use and possession of explosives.

You would probably want this, or something like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsGTWXeOIuU

[onebyone]

Last time I was up there, there was a guy sitting in a chair about 10 feet from the summit, preventing people from summiting. He was sitting next to his 4x4 listening to the Rolling Stones and drinking bourbon.

[rpdawes]

Last time I was up there, there was a guy sitting in a chair about 10 feet from the summit, preventing people from summiting. He was sitting next to his 4x4 listening to the Rolling Stones and drinking bourbon.

How did you conclude that that guy was one of the owners? He could be one of the hikers. I recall that I watched a YouTube video showing several guys driving up to the top from Mineral Park TraIlhead. I am certain that most of you are not familiar with that road. The majority of hikers usually do DECALIBR route from Kite Lake Trailhead.

[painless4u2]

When we were up there the summit was crawling with 4-wheelers. No one bothered us or said anything. Not that we actually summited, of course.

The guy in a lawn chair "guarding" the summit is irrelevant, since ownership involves several people and partnerships, and would likely need permission from the others to do this. Unless he was armed, of course. Then he was REALLY relevant.

[2giqs]

In defense of South Bross:

Everyone else will be headed to Mount Democrat. I didn't encounter a soul both going and coming.

The mountain goats up there seem to appreciate a visitor.

The stroll out to x13899 is pleasantly airy.

From South Bross you know what looks even more hokey: Bross.