Winter approach AT ski setup

[Jorts]

How much do inserts increase stack height? Anecdotally it seems a lower stack height gives better control.

[SkaredShtles]

How much do inserts increase stack height? Anecdotally it seems a lower stack height gives better control.

I don't think they increase it at all. They are basically threaded inserts that screw in flush to the topsheet.

[ballardwf04]

How much do inserts increase stack height? Anecdotally it seems a lower stack height gives better control.

In my experience (former ski tech), stack height is a relatively small factor in the control of the ski. More important is binding/boot compatibility, tensioning and DIN, ski width, ski length, radius, the boot itself... the list goes on. While there is a difference in control between a binding like the Look Pivot 15 (18/19mm stack height) and something like the Marker Griffon 13 (18/22mm), there are so many other factors that affect performance and control that few except professional ski racers and those demanding the absolute most of their equipment would notice a difference in stack height.

[Jorts]

How much do inserts increase stack height? Anecdotally it seems a lower stack height gives better control.

In my experience (former ski tech), stack height is a relatively small factor in the control of the ski. More important is binding/boot compatibility, tensioning and DIN, ski width, ski length, radius, the boot itself... the list goes on. While there is a difference in control between a binding like the Look Pivot 15 (18/19mm stack height) and something like the Marker Griffon 13 (18/22mm), there are so many other factors that affect performance and control that few except professional ski racers and those demanding the absolute most of their equipment would notice a difference in stack height.

Seems reasonable. But with AT skis, I can feel the difference between being right on the top sheet and frame bindings that add like a centimeter. Sounds like it's moot anyway with the inserts.

[pvnisher]

How much do inserts increase stack height? Anecdotally it seems a lower stack height gives better control.

0.00 mm

If anything, You've got machine screws with a tighter tpi than a wood screw.
But it's 0, on the top sheet.

[the_hare]

Ok thanks everyone for the feedback! Just did my first test run at Brainard Lake/ Lefthand reservoir area today and it didn’t suck as much as I expected! Skinning up and transitions were a piece of cake, nice that I can transition without having to take my gloves off. Skiing was easier to pick up than snowboarding, the few inches of powder today was smooth for pizza-ing down but it was easy to lose control in the icier sections. No, I haven’t skied before this but I was already getting the hang of it and didn’t fall at all on my 2nd run down the road.

Definitely see the wisdom in shorter skis, the ski tips would get crossed sometimes while pizza-ing but overall I could manage. The most surprisingly finnicky part was stepping in, was hard to get the placement right on the first try especially for the second ski while my first secured ski is trying to slide around.

But yeah at first with this gear I basically got FOMO from end of season sales and wanted to learn on backcountry snow before it all melted. I ended up getting gear that wasn’t the best fit especially for a longer trip but at least it manages for learning on low angle stuff until next season.

[Jorts]

Ok thanks everyone for the feedback! Just did my first test run at Brainard Lake/ Lefthand reservoir area today and it didn’t suck as much as I expected! Skinning up and transitions were a piece of cake, nice that I can transition without having to take my gloves off. Skiing was easier to pick up than snowboarding, the few inches of powder today was smooth for pizza-ing down but it was easy to lose control in the icier sections. No, I haven’t skied before this but I was already getting the hang of it and didn’t fall at all on my 2nd run down the road.

Definitely see the wisdom in shorter skis, the ski tips would get crossed sometimes while pizza-ing but overall I could manage. The most surprisingly finnicky part was stepping in, was hard to get the placement right on the first try especially for the second ski while my first secured ski is trying to slide around.

But yeah at first with this gear I basically got FOMO from end of season sales and wanted to learn on backcountry snow before it all melted. I ended up getting gear that wasn’t the best fit especially for a longer trip but at least it manages for learning on low angle stuff until next season.

Suhweet! Glad it worked out. Skiing makes spring access fun and quick.

I think this aphorism is pretty accurate: Snowboarding is hard to learn, easy to master; skiing is easy to learn, hard to master. You'll find staying on your feet in low angle terrain simple but it'll never stop challenging you too. Then one day you'll hit a point where you're effortlessly jump turning down steep stuff.

[pvnisher]

Getting the toes into AT bindings can be tricky, especially in deep snow on a slope.

Also, just note that You've GOT to keep the toe cups cleared out to ensure the pins fully engage.
After booting up (kicking into the snow), I stepped in, thought my toes were locked, but the pins were just packed on the snow.
Two turns later, my toe popped out, I wrecked, and I'll spare you the details but it involved hiking a very steep slope with my shoulder dislocated and a chunk of bone in the socket, resulting in a big surgery and a massive recovery.

So, yeah, be sure those toe pins are fully engaged.

[BillMiddlebrook]

^Before I converted to Shift bindings, I kept a small, sharpened key latched to my ice axe leash and would use it to easily grind ice out of my boot pin holes before clicking in for the descent. I figured that if I had my axe, I might need a way to easily clear the pin holes on a steep slope. And if I didn't have my axe, I would find another way to clean them out.

Ice or mud packed in those pin holes is a common problem and it's imperative that they be clean so the pins get proper purchase, as pvnisher mentioned.

[lodgling]

Having had to pick up the pieces from an AT partner's untimely pre-release more than once, here's some timely advice to the AT skiers from your resident telemarker:

https://wildsnow.com/6946/tips-tech-ski-bindings/

Pointer #8 is especially relevant and the standard to confirm no ice in the toe.

Alternatively, switch to a backcountry setup that doesn't release ...

[the_hare]

Also, just note that You've GOT to keep the toe cups cleared out to ensure the pins fully engage.
After booting up (kicking into the snow), I stepped in, thought my toes were locked, but the pins were just packed on the snow.
Two turns later, my toe popped out, I wrecked, and I'll spare you the details but it involved hiking a very steep slope with my shoulder dislocated and a chunk of bone in the socket, resulting in a big surgery and a massive recovery.

So, yeah, be sure those toe pins are fully engaged.

Ouch! Yeah I noticed a bit of snow getting in the toe cups during transitions and made sure to bang it out with my ski pole before I stepped in. Thanks for sharing abt your accident, I've been paying attention to these accounts from users on here to learn from them.

https://wildsnow.com/6946/tips-tech-ski-bindings/

Pointer #8 is especially relevant and the standard to confirm no ice in the toe.

Great link, thanks! Always great stuff from Lou Dawson