What's With All The Rescues?

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
When you go into the wilderness, it should be at your own risk. It is the WILDERNESS. It's nice to still have rugged places like this on our planet where we have to rely on ourselves. I have a feeling places like this won't exist for the next generation.. maybe before that sadly.

Come on - nobody wants "real" wilderness. You know what "real" wilderness in Colorado means? An impenetrable maze of deadfall protecting the high alpine from ANYONE visiting.

The real heroes are the FS employees that are out there with HAND TOOLS, clearing Wilderness trails. Yup - gummint employees. They don't get paid NEARLY enough.

[justiner]

Oh my gosh, you're all over the place, but:

It doesn't show the kings whipping their slaves as they build their pyramids or roads or aqueducts as many did then. I could go on and on.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/d ... ltext.html

Contrary to earlier conjectures—and some modern guidebooks—the pyramids were not built by slaves or foreigners, says the silver-haired Hawass. "That idea of the slaves came from Herodotus," the Greek historian and explorer, Hawass continues. Herodotus visited Egypt around 450 B.C., about 2,000 years after the pyramids were constructed, and was told that 100,000 men had been forced to toil as slaves on the Great Pyramid of the pharaoh Khufu.

So....

And what happens if I don't like what they spend my 25% on??? I can't do 1 damn thing about it.

You can get involved, you can vote, you can protest, you can run for public office, you can do a whole lot of things for issues that are important to you. I guess you can also complain!

And yes, thanks to Theodore we have land conservation.....as if the mountains hadn't made it 10,000 years or billions of years (whichever is your belief system) before him.

Well the Antiquities Act, which is passed under Roosevelt, was about preserving Native American artifacts that were being robbed, so I guess it's more on the 10,000 years scale, rather than 10 billion The first National Park was much earlier; Wilderness Act was much later.

[oldschoolczar]

Come on - nobody wants "real" wilderness. You know what "real" wilderness in Colorado means? An impenetrable maze of deadfall protecting the high alpine from ANYONE visiting.

I'm sure the Colorado backcountry feels like wilderness to those that get lost and never found.. or those that get injured off trail.

Wander off the trail a mile or two and it sure seems like wilderness to me.

[pmeadco]

Come on - nobody wants "real" wilderness.

Yeah, with bears and wolves, and boogeymen, I mean, who would want real wilderness? Nope, these days people want to think they are in the wilderness, even if it has been sanitized for those who can't take care of themselves.

[CheapCigarMan]

[Arndorfer]

While there are the exceptions that are the topic of this thread, the vast majority of people are doing the right things. An example is a group of grade school age kids with an adult that I saw on the way up Mt Elbert on 7/2. I passed them just above treeline, so they got an earlier start than my 6am. While on the way down about 1030a, I met them again as they were descending at about 13300 feet . They did not summit. I assume it was because the weather was starting to turn or someone in the group didn't feel up to it. They made the right choice. Let's encourage those who do make the right plans and decisions, and let those who don't learn from the mistakes.

[highpilgrim]

but that clip is misleading. It doesn't show the kings whipping their slaves as they build their pyramids or roads or aqueducts as many did then. I could go on and on. No, I'm not being physically beaten as they were then but they do take at least 25% of what I make as if it's theirs.

I'm sure this is all a very cogent argument for something but I'm not quite sure what though.

The point of the clip, which I think it captures very effectively, is peeps sitting around bitching about how the gubberment beats us down while wasting our money, while ignoring all the good it does. And they keep on bitching, right up until reduced government cuts into their grazing rights, or farm subsidies, or any other "right" they perceive as theirs. Everyone else is on the government dole, except for them, and theirs.

Funny, that.

You want to support SAR? Buy a five year card, every year. $12 bucks, less than an evening drinking IPA. Good money spent supporting a good cause.

[scalba123]

You want to support SAR? Buy a five year card, every year. $12 bucks, less than an evening drinking IPA. Good money spent supporting a good cause.

Truth

[justiner]

Again, my only point, that as this topic is being discussed I believe we could look for solutions that doesn't require additional government intervention.
You are passionate about this issue but it is not the only one out there. This issue needs money and government intervention, just like all the other gazillion issues out there. A dollar more for this cause, a dollar more for that cause, a dollar more for this issue, a dollar more for that issue.......As rugged and self reliant as we are. Surely, we can find a solution on our own. As I mentioned before, I'd even voluntarily put money in your jar or volunteer my time for a good idea towards it.

Erm, I'm not spearheading any campaign to get the government involved, except for the tourism office to say, "hey, this stuff isn't Disneyland" on like, their website. Any other government intervention I've mentioned, I've also mentioned the problems faced if the idea is applied. I've not called for somehow restricting the rights for anyone to access public lands, or compulsory insurance, or a license to access the back country, or anything like that. Interesting ideas, but problematic. I've also mentioned the use of private backcountry insurance programs and if they'd fit. So we're on a very similar page. I've just not injected my political views into the matter.

Here's my point of view: people need to be more prepared, since rescue is dangerous for all involved. I empathize with the volunteer rescuers, and would rather them not have to go out for non-emergency calls, since this will lead to burn out of - I'm certain, hardworking, dedicated and selfless people.

The only idea that is coming up is raising the fee for the COSAR card. Maaaybe that would actually have a negative impact on purchasing the card? More money per card, less people buying because: money.

[AyeYo]

The only idea that is coming up is raising the fee for the COSAR card. Maaaybe that would actually have a negative impact on purchasing the card? More money per card, less people buying because: money.

And therein lies the inherent and insurmountable problem with all libertarian "voluntary" "solutions". That's why taxes aren't voluntary. Any voluntary system of regulation, fees, taxes, etc. will always end up being a few payers supporting many leeches.

[justiner]

But taxes also benefit the greater good and the services they provide are more cost effective, as well as realistic.

What if all roads were privatized, then tolled individually? How much would it cost to get anywhere?

What if all schools were privatized? What if you couldn't afford to take your munchkin to all the now private schools?



I think it's worth pointing out that the CORSAR card, although voluntary, does the same job as a tax. Small tax-base towns still need to provide SAR services, but cannot afford to realistically do so. So COSAR to the rescue - but it doesn't bring all that much money, many tens of thousands of dollars, annually? So gear may be funded, but personel doesn't. That's the current system as it's set up.

Buuuuuut, how many of those rescues involve HAAT? Well, that's the National Guard right? Who pays for that? The taxpayer. So even if you think we're not all collectively paying for rescues in Colorado, we kind of are, since the National Guard is paid by the Military spending budget. Not by volunteering to buy a piece of paper, not by bake sales, or stickers you can buy at a brewery.

Do I think that's a good use of tax payer money?

Personally?

Yes.

[oldschoolczar]

The only idea that is coming up is raising the fee for the COSAR card. Maaaybe that would actually have a negative impact on purchasing the card? More money per card, less people buying because: money.

And therein lies the inherent and insurmountable problem with all libertarian "voluntary" "solutions". That's why taxes aren't voluntary. Any voluntary system of regulation, fees, taxes, etc. will always end up being a few payers supporting many leeches.

Sure, taxes that cover things we all benefit from should be mandatory... roads/bridges, schools, police, fire departments, (hopefully one day healthcare). Not everyone hikes.

I don't know what the solution is, but at 3 bucks a pop I can assume the CORSAR card isn't really helping much. You can't just jack up the price.. you'd have to jack up the price and create an incentive.. or at least develop a marketing campaign. As it is now, I don't think I'd even know about CORSAR cards if it wasn't for this site. Put some info at trailheads, have rangers tell people about them, I don't know. I did see some flyers at Elevation Brewing the other day. That was cool. We need more of this!