Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing.
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TomPierce wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 10:10 pm
For your category 2, twin/double ropes are not doubled over to lead. You use two separate ropes. The doubling over thing occurs only when a climber uses one of the twin/double ropes and doubles it over to have two strands. Suggestion: Go on youtube and type a search like "twin vs. double climbing ropes" or something like that. I think you'll get a few links and suspect when you see the different uses for each it'll all make sense.
-Tom
Hey Tom,
Sorry for the confusion. I was meaning climbing on one rope doubled over (two strands total) in a twin configuration. I can’t even imagine the rope management of climbing on two ropes doubled over (4 strands). If I went the twin/half rope route, I would plan to buy one 60M rope with the hope that I could lead with it doubled over and minimize weight/bulk. I would only buy a second rope later down the road if I wanted to use the both tied together for longer rappels or have a more standard half rope system for trad or ice climbing.
Re: hyperstatic ropes, I bought a 60m petzl radline for glaciering and I hate the thing. If you think half rope management is difficult, wait until you try to untangle a hyperstatic line. No matter how neatly I try to pack that thing away, it always comes out in a spaghetti pile.
I agree with your pros/cons synopsis. Another potential con for half ropes (for some people) is that they can't be used with a grigri, probably not a problem for this context but some of my climbing partners use that to justify not using half ropes.
TomPierce wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 10:10 pm
For your category 2, twin/double ropes are not doubled over to lead. You use two separate ropes. The doubling over thing occurs only when a climber uses one of the twin/double ropes and doubles it over to have two strands. Suggestion: Go on youtube and type a search like "twin vs. double climbing ropes" or something like that. I think you'll get a few links and suspect when you see the different uses for each it'll all make sense.
-Tom
Hey Tom,
Sorry for the confusion. I was meaning climbing on one rope doubled over (two strands total) in a twin configuration. I can’t even imagine the rope management of climbing on two ropes doubled over (4 strands). If I went the twin/half rope route, I would plan to buy one 60M rope with the hope that I could lead with it doubled over and minimize weight/bulk. I would only buy a second rope later down the road if I wanted to use the both tied together for longer rappels or have a more standard half rope system for trad or ice climbing.
Andy
Andy,
Sounds good. Pros and cons to each option, it's clear you're doing your homework and thinking it through. Fwiw, I was drawn to twin ropes many years ago because I liked splitting the hiking load and at that time twins (and even more so, doubles) had the best impact force ratings. I tend to climb on junky rock ( ha ha, sometimes what seems like dried mud...) so that was a concern. But lately, e.g. weekend before last, I may tote just a single twin and double it over for a lead. Not so concerned with safety because often the peaks we're trying are super remote things but low 5th class. I'm OK soloing stuff but my partner really wants a rope so I tow one up, I use it mainly for rapping. In that setting a doubled-over twin makes a lot of sense, much lighter when you're humping gear >12+ hours. Just be careful, though. I wouldn't want to take a real deal airborne lead fall on a single strand of a twin rope . Be safe out there.
TomPierce wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 7:19 pm
…you're clipped into a single strand at the knot…
I tie into both strands and the ends, so it’s just like two 30m half ropes. My follower TRs clipped in to a knot, but there’s not mush load on a TR.
Plus, It’s easy enough to remedy this by tying a double figure eight on the other end.
worth noting that even if you have a single loop you still technically are loading two strands- see this for the simplest explanation I could find... https://overtheedgerescue.com/canyoning ... le-strand/
for sure use a double loop if you want but the failure point won't be the single-loop tie in.
Justiner makes the best points on this thread IMO, use what's convenient to rap on, you really shouldn't be whipping on any of the cents, I personally consider the rope a secondary safety system in these cases and am plenty happy climbing on a static or undoubled twin, YMMV.
Specific to CO Class 5 Centennials or low-technical CO alpine rambles in general:
Fully agree with pairing 30 - 35 m 1) a single rated rope 8.5 - 9.4 mm to lead and 2) a twin or half rated rope 7.8 - 8.5 mm for rappel or even for lower risk leads where a high factor fall isn't really a possibility.
More thoughts:
This is such a good and versatile setup. The weight can be split up too, and you can use either for glaciers.
IF AND ONLY IF you're thinking to get into more technical alpine climbing in the 5.6 and up range, consider just starting off with 60 m setups.
I have a number of pull cords but don't really think they're that beneficial at 30m lengths. It's not much more weight for the more versatile half rope. I've also used the Beal Escaper extensively. I like it, but would not recommend it for most.
My 30s are simply re-purposed 60-70 m alpine ropes that I've cut down due to core shots, but a lot of my partners LOVE the Petzl Volta 9.2 mm for short rope rampaging around Eldo, often pitching in for the 60m and chopping it in half brand new. I do annotate the EXACT length on the tails after chopping them for safety reasons.
Various partners like different lengths for obscure preferences. I personally enjoy a 32 m rope. Furthermore makes us use some dumb illogical 40 m rope. Other partners use 25 - 30 m ropes. Depends on the area.
I'm not picky on alpine ropes and tend to think a lot of stuff out there is over-priced marketing junk designed to fulfill psychological fears versus practical. A dry 8.5 mm to 9.2 mm with a lower relative dynamic elongation <$200 on sale option does the trick. I can buy a rope marker to add custom half and 20 ft markings.
I personally think linking long 60 m pitches is an over-rated tactic. One person sits there freezing their butt off while the other moves slower than all hell fighting drag. Quick turnover and simultaneous movement trump!
"The road to alpine climbing is pocked and poorly marked, ending at an unexpectedly closed gate 5 miles from the trailhead." - MP user Beckerich
Monster5 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:30 am
More thoughts:
I have a number of pull cords but don't really think they're that beneficial at 30m lengths. It's not much more weight for the more versatile half rope. I've also used the Beal Escaper extensively. I like it, but would not recommend it for most.[/list]
Pairing a pull cord with a 30m, 8mm is how I got into the coinslot on mt royal for years. Then I got the Beal Gully in 60m and ditched the pull cord. But for winter ski mountaineering I still think a light, durable 30m 8mm dynamic is a sound insurance policy for navigating random short cliffs that need to be navigated like one may find in the winter or spring depending on snowpack depth.
Traveling light is the only way to fly.
IG: @colorado_invasive
Strava: Brent Herring
I also just used 30m 8 mm ropes for Centennials/Bicentennials, except Dallas and Wham, where I used a proper 70 m. You mostly need ropes for raps anyway. I cannot imagine clipping 2 twin ropes into 1 or 2 tricam pieces on Teakettle, Dallas, Jagged, Pk 15 or Coxcomb.
Twin ropes are considered useful in places like Red Rock canyon (NV) where they are used for double rope raps. Even then, I'd be nervous getting them stuck and prefer a single 70.
If you want to chop a rope, here how I've done it (multiple times over the years):
-Remember the axiom: Measure twice, cut once.
-Use a super sharp knife, clean cutting board. Want a clean frazzle-free cut.
-Cut straight, 90 degree angle.
-Burn the ends slightly, incl the core. Don't go crazy.
-Just me: I dip all ends in red Whip End Dip, about 1.5-2". Dip straight in, figure out how to suspend the rope end vertically while it dries, i.e. don't lay it flat on a surface when drying, it'll bond to the surface like kid's paste, not good. But once you do it, you'll master it quickly. It's a liquid polyurethane, seals the ends from unraveling. Dries hard but flexible hard, not brittle. The red color makes it easier to find the ends when you have rope spaghetti, esp at night when you're tired.
-You could also mark mid points, but it makes no sense to me if you're using different colored twin ropes. But if you nonetheless want to, read up on what marker to use, seems like that debate has waxed/waned over the years. Some rope companies sell rope markers, e.g. Blue Water. Not sure it truly makes a difference, but you decide.
Thanks again for all the great replies guys. Really appreciative of all the well-thought out suggestions. The more I think about it, the more I’m thinking about going the fast/light route like Justiner and others have mentioned. I’ve narrowed things down to the Edelrid Rap Line Protect or one of the skinny half rope options. For the half rope route, the Sterling Dyad 7.7 seems appealing because it has very low static elongation (good rappels) but the Beal Gully seems to have the highest sheath percentage and unicore technology (better durability). I was originally sold on getting something that’s 60M, but from what you guys say, it sounds like that might be a bit overkill for the Cents. Maybe 40M would be a good length for most everything and then I’d bring my 70M sport rope for any of the longer stuff (i.e. Wham Ridge)?
