Ultra Runner in Court for Cutting Switchback

[astranko]

[...] Bryce Thatcher also didn't cut trails for his long-established Grand Teton FKT. It was really Jornet who broke custom on that particular route.

I agree that Jornet broke custom on that route in particular. It is the case, however, that the larger FKT game really doesn't have that requirement to follow the trail.

I see a meaningful distinction between the rules that "fastest local hardman" and "#FKTspecialist" tend to follow. Even if the actual fastest time is held by the hardman, they probably understand themselves as playing different games. Most of the FKTs on 14ers blow switchbacks. Both the mens' and womens' Elbert FKTs blew the upper switchbacks, for example.

I want to reinforce that I don't think that's sufficient justification to jump the sign/blow the switch backs, but I do think it is relevant to the comparison.

[cedica]

Thoughts?

Mixed emotions, buddy. Like watching Eric and Hunter going off a cliff in my new Maserati.

[Monte Meals]

"he confessed he cut a switchback on the descent. His confession led to a ticket from National Park Rangers."

FKT competitors SHOULD be allowed to violate any law / rule / ethical value - because ...

They are the elite !

noun

A group or class of persons considered to be superior to others because of their intelligence, social standing, or wealth.

[seannunn]

I am curious as to how "trail like" the aforementioned social trail is.
Is it a well worn but narrow dirt trail?
Or is it a place where the vegetation is just smashed down a little bit.

It's a well-worn dirt trail that hasn't noticeably eroded in the 15 years I've been visiting the Tetons. It's also clearly signed as "do not use." Not a lot of people use it, but enough do to keep it from becoming overgrown like the other shortcut lower down. It's not one of those tiny shortcuts saving 20 yards next to a switchback -- you can't see the end from the beginning, and it probably cuts the better part of a mile.

I'm not offering an opinion, but just describing what we're talking about.

First thing I have heard about being signed. That's obviously a no no then. 6 months in jail is obviously not a fitting penalty though. Community service does seem like a good idea. If he rock stepped the entire short cut trail, it would be stable, rangers could take the sign down, and then someone could use it in the future legally to break his invalid FKT. Now that would be ironic justice.

Sean Nunn
Peculiar, MO

[mtnhigh358]

Fwiw and I know my opinion doesn’t matter, I don’t know why so many people hate on “fkters” all of you saying they are “elite” and exaggerating saying they “should be able to break the rules” I don’t necessarily think those setting records think that.

And come on, I say you can only complain if you have never in your life cut one single switchback or set one foot off trail.

Get a grip. Community service for cutting one switchback. I entirely disagree. Although I know your argument of “setting a precedent or an “example” I just don’t think that it will help.

[Wentzl]

I don't understand most of the acronyms, but if the debate is getting from point a to b and back, then I cheer for the guy (gal) who did it fastest.

Criminal charges for a switchback? And this whole forum is not batting .1000 for the runner?

WTF

Go runner go. Get it any way you can.

I paced a runner on the Hardrock 100 and when he got the shits I offered him some TP and he told me NO.

I cannot accept aid from a pacer, I will s**t myself and run in the aftermath.

I insisted he accept my offer.

what happened next? Yours to tell. Did he cheat if he won the race? Was I wrong to make the offer?

The mountains are the judge. Getting it done is the verdict. Give that guy his award and the rest of you just shut the f*** up.

[JROSKA]

I don’t know why so many people hate on “fkters” all of you saying they are “elite” and exaggerating saying they “should be able to break the rules” I don’t necessarily think those setting records think that.

I agree that we probably shouldn’t be throwing around terms like “elite” or cheering because some guy had his record taken away or might have to pay a fine.

But I think we should also remember that if Tanner the Texan or Ned the Noob were observed cutting switchbacks, we’d all be united here telling them how stupid and inconsiderate they are, and to stay out of Colorado’s mountains if they don't care about the rules. If we are going to tell newcomers to the 14er community that it’s not ok to cut switchbacks because it causes erosion, it just sends a confusing message when the top athletes among us (and some of the most visible) disregard a rule that’s supposed to be about protecting the environment.

I don’t necessarily see that as “hating on” FKT’ers, just calling out an inconsistency, that’s all. And if still in doubt, feel free to visit fastestknowntime.com, under FKT Guidelines, and read the following:

“Routes should follow logical, aesthetic lines on the map and the landscape, and should reflect what the local community most often does. . . . . . Please keep to existing trails where applicable; submissions that cut switchbacks—whether route or FKT submissions—are likely to be declined.”

Seems pretty clear to me.

[Scott P]

And come on, I say you can only complain if you have never in your life cut one single switchback or set one foot off trail.

I have never cut a switchback (unless it was on snow).

Get a grip. Community service for cutting one switchback. I entirely disagree.

The punishment should be harsher. Cutting switchbacks ruins the trails.

[hellmanm]

Some misc thoughts:

1. Most of us don’t cut switchbacks. Doing it deliberately is generally selfish and irresponsible.
2. Most of us have also cut one by accident at some point too. Life goes on.
3. I bet most of us don’t have the gall to brag about it online, though…
4. It’s totally extreme to take a switchback-cutter to court. The behavior is wrong, and a fine/lecture/some trail work to make up for it is more than fair, but let’s get a grip.
5. FKTers aren’t special. Mr. runner deserves the same punishment for cutting a switchback as a tourist visiting the same area.

[colingoodman]

But I think we should also remember that if Tanner the Texan or Ned the Noob were observed cutting switchbacks, we’d all be united here telling them how stupid and inconsiderate they are, and to stay out of Colorado’s mountains if they don't care about the rules.

This comment from JROSKA is certainly accurate for myself. Someone mentioned the rangers should put in a fence or sign and call it good. And while that does probably work much of the time, I do still see people ignoring such discouragement and cutting the switchbacks anyways. And in high traffic areas it does bother me a bit. I saw it happen twice just yesterday in the flatirons with the holiday weekend crowds. I also recognize that I am arguably a hypocrite here; while I don't cut switchbacks, I do use social trails, and like most others here I've done peaks with no trails up them at all. I tend to justify such behavior based on the popularity of the trail or land I am on at the moment.

[Ed_Groves]

Some misc thoughts:

1. Most of us don’t cut switchbacks. Doing it deliberately is generally selfish and irresponsible.
2. Most of us have also cut one by accident at some point too. Life goes on.
3. I bet most of us don’t have the gall to brag about it online, though…
4. It’s totally extreme to take a switchback-cutter to court. The behavior is wrong, and a fine/lecture/some trail work to make up for it is more than fair, but let’s get a grip.
5. FKTers aren’t special. Mr. runner deserves the same punishment for cutting a switchback as a tourist visiting the same area.

I purposely did not air my views when I started this thread because I wanted to see people's actual thoughts after reviewing the link, rather than their response to mine. I agree with hellmanm for the most part, however, I somewhat stray from his views on number 4 above. Sunseri is actually in court because he chose to challenge the plea agreement of a misdemeanor conviction, a five-year ban from the national park, and a fine. I do think the plea agreement was a bit extreme though, specifically the five year ban from the national park. If I was Sunseri's lawyer I would have worked towards replacing that with trail work for the park and if I couldn't beat the ban, I would have went for something like one or two years.

I totally get the point that he isn't the only one using the switchback and he feels it is unfair to be singled out, but if you have never been punished for something others got away with, you just haven't lived long enough. When people ignore a rule, eventually some teeth have to be added to the rule to get people to pay attention. The first person who gets bit is always going to complain because the rule should have been enforced on everyone before them. So, overall, I think this needed to happen. I just think the punishment should be altered.

[astranko]

I have never cut a switchback (unless it was on snow).

So you have cut a switchback when the rules of your game allows it?

Jail. Straight to jail.