On using ropes

[mountainute]

Hi all,

Reading all those sad stories about recent fatal accidents on Capitol and posts by many of the 14er hiking/climbing community: This indicates that naturally everyone is concerned about avoidance of accidents and backward/forward looking analysis. I cant help but make the following one point:

It seems that carrying a rope along with the usual set of climbing gear (double/ twin rope, harnesses, small amount of gear such as slings and few nuts/cams) is undervalued in the 14ers climbing community.
Many of the exposed or loose or otherwise critical sections in the 14ers can be made safer, especially for a less experienced partner, by properly belaying.
I come from an alpine rock and ice climbing background, so its natural for me not to venture into the mountains without my rope (except on definite hikes/ walk-ups). If it's all easy, the rope can always stay in the pack. I bring a rope on sketchy 3rd class and above. Its well-known that there are ways of fast and efficient moving while belaying.

Disclaimer: Everything can always shake, topple over and fall off.
[i.e. there is objective danger.]

I wish everyone always a safe return! - Mountainute

[Scott P]

I don't think that ropes would have prevented the recent accidents on Capitol.

[Conor]

You should go to the mountains with the proper fitness, experience, knowledge and equipment. In terms of equipment, you should take only what you need, and nothing more.

It's nothing more than a lack of the proper experience and knowledge to even suggest common people looking to make an ascent via standard routes on Colorado's 14ers in summer should bring technical climbing equipment. Even winter, very few routes would require it.

I would even go further to argue that brining ropes on normal 14er routes further puts others in danger and offers very little in the form of "Safety." Especially in the hands of someone who is timid about "3rd class and above."

If you're not comfortable with the 14er standard route, find a different mountain.

[Brian C]

It's nothing more than a lack of the proper experience and knowledge ...

This is so true. I have never understood why anybody would not take the time to scramble more routes on easier mountains to build confidence for the "hard" scrambling routes on 14ers if they felt unprepared. Well, I guess that's not true. The only reason would be that they are in a hurry to tick the list and don't care about mountains other than the 14ers.

Also, it seems that many accidents occur due to being off route. Busting out a rope to get through a nasty off-route section is much less effective than simply turning around and finding the actual route. The focus shouldn't be on bringing a rope, it should be on building a solid foundation of skills and not simply following pictures on a page.

[Daniel Joder]

I, too, come from a rock climbing background. However, I wouldn't carry a rope on any of the standard 14er routes. Your safety buffer comes from knowledge, previous experience on other 14ers, and the ability to move light and fast out of weather considerations. Very often, the rock is so chossy setting good anchors could be problematic and time consuming. Also, the rope can dislodge loose rock. I have seen pictures of folks putting up sort of a fixed rope for the crossing of the "knife edge" on Capitol to ease the fears of companions, but I think if folks need a rope there they haven't properly spent time progressing through the 14ers in order from easy to hard. (Plus, I thought the chossy, ledgy stuff past the knife edge going up the summit face was scarier and more dangerous--and a nearly impossible section for rope use due to scree and loose rock.) If you stick to the progression method, you will be ready for the harder routes and you won't need a rope.

[kzm5355]

Wouldn't want to be below anyone using a rope in the Elks

[seano]

Its well-known that there are ways of fast and efficient moving while belaying.

As in simul-soloing or short-roping? The former is pretty miserable on low-angle terrain and wandering routes, and even when done properly, is still likely to turn a one-person fall into a two-person one. The latter is suitable for guiding on class 3-4 terrain, i.e. a solid climber keeping a stumbling newbie on a leash.

Disclaimer: Everything can always shake, topple over and fall off.
[i.e. there is objective danger.]

I haven't been paying too much attention, but I think "off route" and "objective hazard" account for all of this year's fatalities. A rope won't fix those.

[XterraRob]

If you use a rope for Capitol's standard route in the summer/fall, you essentially become the hazard.

[Prairie Dog]

Ropes and protection are probably unnecessary on most, if not all, 14er standard routes.

All of the ropes and protection in the world will be useless without the skill and experience to use them safely and properly.

If you possess the skill and experience to use the ropes and protection safely and properly, you will probably not feel the need for them on a 14er standard route.

If you feel the need for ropes and protection on a 14er standard route, you probably haven't gained the skill and experience to use them properly and safely.

[DArcyS]

It's nothing more than a lack of the proper experience and knowledge ...

This is so true. I have never understood why anybody would not take the time to scramble more routes on easier mountains to build confidence for the "hard" scrambling routes on 14ers if they felt unprepared. Well, I guess that's not true. The only reason would be that they are in a hurry to tick the list and don't care about mountains other than the 14ers.

Nothing wrong with what you said, but the more complete answer is that their obsessive compulsive nature, or in other words their psychological makeup, drives them to climb the peak to get it done. One can get an idea of another climber's perspective by checking their peaklist, and I can see why you don't understand other's behavior in this regard because you don't have an OCD bone in your body. If you did, you'd have climbed all those easy peaks in the Sawatch to finish off the 14ers. On the other side of the coin, there might be some people here who can't understand how you haven't climbed all those easy peaks to finish the 14ers!

If you stick to the progression method, you will be ready for the harder routes and you won't need a rope.

And related to the above, not necessarily. Some people may never overcome the fear of falling and thereby lack the requisite confidence to do Capitol. Not everybody can become a good climber just as not everybody can become a good golfer. But it's completing the list that drives them to go above their comfort zone. And once finished with the 14ers, they're done with hard peaks for good.

[RockiesAdrian]

Knowledge is power. Research the route as fully as you can. Make an honest assessment of how your skills match up against those required to accomplish your mission.

I agree with everyone above who says using a rope on any standard route would increase the danger to yourself and those around you. First of all, fast is safe, and every ounce of weight can affect your RT time. Second, if you think you need a rope, you are tackling a challenge for which you don't yet have the required technical skills.

And a rope isn't going to save you from a 600' cliff. Stay on route.

[AlexeyD]

Interesting question, and interesting replies. A lot of very Colorado-centric attitude in some of the comments - but let's try to step back a bit.

First of all: the question was brought up as "Class 3 or harder", but let's be specific: are we actually talking about Class 3 or Class 4? I know that on the CO 14ers they tend to get lumped together (mostly for justifiable reasons), but let's remember that, conventionally defined, there's a pretty big distinction when it comes to the rope question. Namely, Class 3 is considered to be scramble terrain where a rope should not be needed except in very unusual circumstances, whereas Class 4 is is defined as more serious scrambling or easy climbing where the consequences of a fall would be very serious, and a rope may be advisable. Based on this conventional definition, on most peaks outside of CO (e.g. the Sierra or Cascades), I'd probably bring a rope and light alpine rack on most climbs rated Class 4, and not on Class 3.

The CO 14ers are a bit of an exception from this general rule in that, of the handful of them whose standard routes are rated Class 4, those sections are relatively short and, more importantly, all of the routes are so well-traveled and have so much beta available that it's essentially more like following a trail with some exposed sections (think Capitol). On top of that, most of those routes go through terrain where a rope would not be very helpful due to the loose nature of the rock. But let's remember that this is actually an exception rather than the rule. One of the reasons you bring a rope on a Class 4 route for something that is not a CO 14er is that it doesn't take much to find yourself on Class 5 terrain. On the 14ers, this should be avoidable through careful routefinding and thanks to the copious amounts of information and signs of use on the standard routes. But, again, this is actually somewhat unusual. In many cases, you only have a general idea of the line the route follows, maybe the occasional cairn here and there, but that's about it. In that situation, having a rope in case you aren't able to find the one Class 4 option that someone else did (or maybe they just felt comfortable on?) is not a bad idea at all.

Point being: OP actually raises an interesting point that our standard practices here in CO are actually a bit of an exception from the internationally-recognized norm, and while they may be justified, it's good to be aware of this.