Mt. Everest

[pw]

Minor disaster a couple of days ago on Everest when a cornice collapsed on the summit ridge. Here are a couple of links. At the first one there are 3 very brief video clips, the first and second clips show the before and after the collapse. Also shows how incredibly crowded it is. I was wondering how those who have summited and start down get past the people still coming up to make room at the top. At the bottom of the page at the second link is a brief video showing the line of climbers heading up. I think they all use a weather service now, so no guessing on weather, when they get the word on a good weather window, everyone heads up on the same couple of days.

I think Nepal needs to throttle back on the money grab for those permits, let fewer people up there each year, of course, that seems unlikely to happen. I also don't see any appeal to getting to the top of Everest in such a crowd.


https://www.instagram.com/p/C7TbWUYyZ3w/?img_index=1


https://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2024/0 ... -climbers/

[pvnisher]

I saw those videos. It is madness up there on a clear weather window.
Seems really risky.

[JROSKA]

Curious. Is there some worldwide organization (like the UN for instance) that can tend to certain issues like, is trash / waste being removed, is safety being compromised, are the Sherpas getting paid enough relative to those collecting the money? Or isn’t that a UN thing.

[desertdog]

I tired Everest in 2019. At camp 2 I got AMS, Cerebral Edema, and to top it all off, a blood clot.

It definitely had elements of a s**t show, but also there were some great and experienced climbers on my team. The funniest/stupidest thing that I saw was a woman from the Middle East that had her crampons on backwards as we went into the ice fall. I fixed them for her. It is a shame that the Nepal government does not do more to control experience and numbers on the mountain. That would solve a lot of the problems.

The Sherpa control a lot of what goes on these days. Nepali companies do most of the guiding on the mountain. There is a move to allow JUST local companies guide the mountain. The Sherpa are proud of their mountaineering history and do not consider themselves victims.

Everest is hard mentally and physically. Anyone that gets up it has my respect. As for me, I probably won’t go back. Way too much money and not my scene anymore. If I did, I would go on the Northside. I would love to do an 8000m peak though before I’m over the hill. Pardon the pun.

Just finished reading a great book Everest Inc. that goes into all this in detail. Worth a read.

[peter303]

This guy says 409 summits with seven dead or missing. A couple of days there were over a hundred, resulting in long conga lines.

https://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2024/0 ... inds-down/

[justiner]

lol "This guy"

[pvnisher]

Curious. Is there some worldwide organization (like the UN for instance) that can tend to certain issues like, is trash / waste being removed, is safety being compromised, are the Sherpas getting paid enough relative to those collecting the money? Or isn’t that a UN thing.

If the UN got into the trash and safety business, protecting rich vacationers would be the bottom of the priority list for me.

I'd love to see those blue helmet people actually out picking up trash, though. It would be right around the first time they did anything worthwhile.

[JROSKA]

Curious. Is there some worldwide organization (like the UN for instance) that can tend to certain issues like, is trash / waste being removed, is safety being compromised, are the Sherpas getting paid enough relative to those collecting the money? Or isn’t that a UN thing.

If the UN got into the trash and safety business, protecting rich vacationers would be the bottom of the priority list for me.

I'd love to see those blue helmet people actually out picking up trash, though. It would be right around the first time they did anything worthwhile.

I’m not implying that the UN should be in the business of “protecting the vacationers”. That’s not what I meant. I’m looking at it more from the standpoint of protecting the environment and making sure the sherpas are properly compensated and not being “encouraged” into unsafe situations by an employer. Maybe do an audit to see where the money goes and limit the numbers of folks on the mountain. The kinds of things that would outrage everyone if it happened here in the US. It would be nice to have the confidence that Nepal can manage the situation but it doesn’t seem like that’s occurring.

[edmdais1]

lol "This guy"

Right?? Obviously doesn’t know who Alan Arnette is.

[Gandalf69]

Mt Everest?! For a second I thought it might be G@T upper slopes on a holiday weekend.....Just kidding. In all seriousness though, lets compare the Everest thing to maybe, idk skiing at Breck on a powder day? Nepal depends on tourist money, Breck depends on tourist money. Climbers want a good weather window to summit, skiers/riders want the best weather to ski in, You can hire a guide as a climber on Everest, in Breck you can hire ski school to take care of you. Lines of people going to the summit, in Breck lines of people waiting to get on the lifts, get food, well, everything. Alot of people don't ski or climb 8000 meter peaks, and see people out in the elements waiting in line to do such things as crazy, but others are willing to wait for the chairlift, or the summit. Consider the risk involved as well, climbing Everest is dangerous, skiing in Breck can be dangerous. Bottom line, people are going to do it regardless. I know it's an apples to oranges comparison, but having worked in Breck for a few years now, when the lift lines are long I'm sometimes reminded of Everest videos like the ones posted.

[pw]

Curious. Is there some worldwide organization (like the UN for instance) that can tend to certain issues like, is trash / waste being removed, is safety being compromised, are the Sherpas getting paid enough relative to those collecting the money? Or isn’t that a UN thing.

There are humanitarian organizations, they would need the approval of the host country to operate there. Probably the sort that monitor social and economic conditions, versus just offering some sort of help, medical for instance, not exactly welcome by most countries. I think there is enough of a focus on Everest, and the whole process of climbing it has been refined almost to a science, that it's probably about as safe as climbing Everest could be. Always going to be those dangers that can't totally be done away with, like climbing through the ice fall. I think compensation for Sherpas has gone up quite a bit in the last few years, I can't give any numbers, just my general impression.

[Alan Arnette]

This guy says 409 summits with seven dead or missing. A couple of days there were over a hundred, resulting in long conga lines.

https://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2024/0 ... inds-down/

An update on the summits: I estimate that 200 clients, supported by 300 Sherpas, summited on the Nepal side, totaling about 600 summits. That makes for a 1:1.5 client-to-support ratio. Nepal issued 421 foreign permits, so they had a 47% success rate compared to 58% for members in Nepal from 2000 to 2023, per the Himalayan Database. On the Tibet side, I estimate that around thirty clients, supported by thirty support climbers, summited. Everest will see around 670 summits this spring, well below the 2019 record of 877.

2024 may be a turning point for Everest, but I've said that before. A long line of an estimated fifty climbers was too much for the Hillary Step, causing a soft cornice overhanging the Kangshung Face to collapse. Several people plummeted down the Face but were stopped by being clipped into the fixed rope. However, two climbers were apparently not clipped in and fell down the 10,000-foot Face. Search efforts have been called off. Here in Colorado, it would be like a long line of people stepping on the cornice between Grays and Torreys but at 28,740 feet.

There are many questions about this incident that may drive meaningful changes like permit limits and guide training.  This is anarrow sevtion but hundreds have crossed with no similar incident. So, why did climbers overload the cornice? Why was the fixed rope so near the overhang? Why didn't experienced mountaineers see the developing situation and stop climbers from overloading it? Was this a result of the warm Himalayan winter? It's dangerous to speculate, but this incident needs a full review by independent, experienced climbers like a Conrad Anker, for example.

curious. Is there some worldwide organization (like the UN for instance) that can tend to certain issues like, is trash / waste being removed, is safety being compromised, are the Sherpas getting paid enough relative to those collecting the money? Or isn’t that a UN thing.

The Nepal government manages Everest along with several local municipalities, e.g., Namache Bazar, and an industry group of Nepali guide companies. They try to manage topics like trash. For example, this year, they mandated WAG bags like on Denali or Aconcagua. Long-time Western teams have mostly used them, so this is a good step, but it will take time to get everyone on board. They've tried to manage using helicopters for sightseeing or shortcuts, but it is unevenly enforced or just ignored. There is just too much money for all involved to make a genuine effort to reduce crowds. Interestingly, the Chinese have a 300 total operson limit on their (Tibet) side.

My 2 cents for what it's worth,

This Guy